I'm about to pull my hair out while trying to housebreak our 16 wk old beagle mix, Oscar. I've been taking him outside religiously at timed
intervals since we adopted him 10 weeks ago. I started with 30 minutes when he was 6 weeks old and have progressed to 60 minutes now. I'm having trouble
with rewarding him for going outside. When I use a dog treat to reward him, I have trouble with him just sitting and looking at me, so focused on the treat he
doesn't want to pee. I honestly think he stops peeing midway thru to get the treat. He's learned to turn to me after he pottys for the reward. If I
don't have a treat for him, he turns away from the praise, kind of like praise alone isn't worth his time. I've been using the treat just a couple
of times a day, randomly. Is there anything else I should be doing? I have kept myself motivated aiming for 16 weeks, when I have read that he should start
to get it. But, there does not seem to be a light at the end of the tunnel. I feel like I have wasted the last 10 weeks of my life and have nothing to show
for it. I know that is dramatic, but I really needed to vent. I would be grateful for any suggestions.
0 Kudo
Housebreaking 16 wk old beagle mix
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 pm844 |
Housebreaking 16 wk old beagle mix |
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Posts: 16 07/12/08 10:52 PM |
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beckybishop |
Vent away, then take a breath... | #1 | ||
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Posts: 2517 07/12/08 11:08 PM Professional Trainer/Moderator |
Always good to vent, and then move on. Are you crating him? I have housebroken over 1000 dogs, (Personally 100's) the rest group class and I have never myself had to use food to get a puppy to go potty outside. Keep in mind that freedom is it's own reward. We often forget that giving him some freedom, play, run around, go for a walk if he eliminates outside, THAT is a reward. I'm a bit confused by what you mean that you progressed to 60 minutes? Are you saying you take him out every hour? Does he hold it in his crate? Treats can be a huge distraction for many puppies and you simply just don't need it for him. If he were afraid to go out, or you needed him to go on a certain surface, treats maybe. But take a breath and fill me in more on his schedule and how long you take when you are outside and is he on a leash? 4 months is still quite young, most of my dogs were not consistant until 5 months of age. |
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KellieB |
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Posts: 2798 07/12/08 11:16 PM Senior Member
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Just to get some perspective, my Doberman wasn't what I'd consider consistently housebroken until around 9 months. At 16 weeks he may just be
developing some muscle control, but you still need to be consistent with the taking out after eating, drinking, playing, sleeping, getting excited etc, and
this will happen more than every 60 minutes. It just takes as long as it takes, and as Sarah says, "it takes less time to take the time it takes",
meaning do what he needs now (maybe for him that's every 30 minutes still as his bladder control slowly increases) so that you end up with a reliably house
trained dog down the road, however long that road may be.
If you're going to use treats to reward with, I'd make sure they're stacked on your person already before you bring him outside, so that it's not something you're holding (and he knows you're holding) as he's peeing. I'd be hard pressed to think of any dog at that age that wouldn't be distracted by that, let alone a hound!  I like what Becky said above too, about using different life rewards too...this will get you on the
road of not having to have a cookie to be relevent to the pup, as you're the "giver of good things" like freedom, play, praise, excitement, and
also have control of not providing those things (i.e. pup hasn't peed, back in the crate and try again in 10 minutes).
This is a frustrating time for sure, hang in there, he WILL get it if you're consistent. ~Kellie
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pm844 |
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Posts: 16 07/13/08 12:23 AM |
I'm happy to hear that 4 months is still pretty young. It just feels like it has been forever. Here's a little more information in response to your
questions:
Oscar is crated overnight and anytime we are not home. I work from home, so he is not often home alone. By saying we "progressed to 60 minutes," I meant that at first he needed to go out every 30 minutes, but after 10 weeks he has stretched out the time between pees to about 60 minutes, so I am taking him out every hour. He is great at holding it overnight in his crate, from about 11pm to 6am. When we are out of the house, we try not to leave him crated for more than 4 hrs and he usually has no trouble holding it. If I take him out every 60 minutes, he usually pees within just a couple of minutes. We have a small fenced yard, so he is usually not on a leash, but I walk around the yard with him. After dark, he likes to chase bugs, so I do use a leash in the evenings. I like the idea of not using treats as reward. I was trying them because I had seen them used on the DVD that came with My Smart Puppy and thought they might work well with Oscar because he is so crazy about treats. KellieB mentioned if he doesn't pee to crate him 10 minutes and then try again. I had been wondering if that was ok. It seems like this past week he has been less consistent on how long he goes without peeing. I am hoping that's a good sign that he is getting some control. I did bring him in and crate him a couple of times when he didn't pee within 5 minutes or so. I just didn't want him to see that as punishment since he is not generally crated during the day. Thanks for the advice. It does feel good to vent and to find out that all hope is not lost. |
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beckybishop |
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Posts: 2517 07/13/08 10:56 AM Professional Trainer/Moderator |
The beauty of the crate is that one, dogs usually like to be crated and two, they hold their bladder. If you read about crate training in the My Smart Puppy Book I believe it says to crate your puppy up to 5 hours a day when you are home. The crate is a total housebreaking tool. This is where freedom is the reward. You go out with puppy and do not spend over 5 minutes and get him to pee. Build a trigger word by saying "Potty, potty, potty" while he is going potty. IF he fails to go potty, he is not in trouble but I would return to the house and crate him. Give him a bone or a chew and leave him in the crate for 20 minutes or so. (More that 10) The crate is like our bed or couch. You lay on the couch for 15 minutes, you get up, you have to pee. It's a conditioned response. You take him out out of the crate, go outside and if he goes potty, "yeah!" he gets freedom with you, play in the yard. Keep in mind, it's REALLY important that you crate a puppy when you are home in the day time. This is not just for house breaking but puppies need to self sooth, be happy being home and learn to be "ok" away from you even if you are home. Limiting their freedom when you ARE home by crating will make for a more well balanced dog down the road. Think of a baby human and how many times they go down in their crib during the day for a nap. We have to do this or the baby gets over stimulated and cranky. Puppies are no different and the crate during the day can bring your housebreaking along. He will hold it or can hold it in the crate his age in months plus one hour during the day up to 5 hours. So putting him in the crate when you are home for 1.5 hours will help him build his bladder control. It is a muscle, he has to use it so having him hold it longer during the day will help also. |
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KellieB |
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Posts: 2798 07/13/08 11:00 AM Senior Member
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Oh--definitely do some crating while you're home with him. Like you said, you don't want the crate to be a punishment of course, but crate also
shouldn't = "I'm about to be left alone". I think Beagles more so than other breeds can have separation anxiety issues, and teaching him that
he can be on his own, even if there are people home, is a good thing, and won't make you feel like he thinks he's in trouble, since crating is a normal
part of every day for him.
ETA-Becky and I were typing at the same time. What she said.
~Kellie
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Cedricsmom |
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Posts: 1576 07/13/08 11:11 AM |
Not a trainer, just a recent puppy grad. I'd like to say that what has been said works! Dogs have to pee and a food treat isn't absolutely essential
especially if your puppy is too distracted by it. Verbal praise (keep it calm and quiet during the actual peeing or he may stop if he hears too much
excitement) during the voiding and a play party afterward works wonders. It only took a time or two of taking him out, too bad so sad, no pee, back in crate.
My puppy got that message fast!
If you use the crate as described, you will quickly graduate from going out every hour to 2 hours, 3 hours, etc.
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HeyFuzzy |
#7 | |||
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Posts: 1103 07/13/08 11:44 AM |
It just feels like it has been forever.I bought a 7 week old puppy once, back when that was considered an ideal age, and by the time she was 4 months old, it had been forever. Those early weeks are really tough, and as the saying goes, "I feel your pain."  I can distinctly remember, over 20 years later, shooing Maggie out on the lanai
so I could clean up a puddle on the floor, and having her scoot merrily back in to make another one. 
You're right at the point where, following the good advice here, you should see signs of progress. |
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pm844 |
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Posts: 16 07/13/08 6:56 PM |
Thanks all! I feel much better today after a good vent, lots of good advice & pep talks, and a good night's sleep!
I will definately use the crate more often during the day. Even though I had read it in the book, there is something that makes me feel guilty using it while I am home. But, I guess it will be a nice break for both of us. It will be nice to be able to take my eyes off the pup for a while. |
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beckybishop |
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Posts: 2517 07/13/08 11:29 PM Professional Trainer/Moderator |
You can't ever let guild rule the day. If we did that we would never get these little buggars trained at all! I'm of the belief that crating off and on, during the day, when you are home is as important as crating when you leave. Take it from my 4 VERY well adjusted dogs, all who were crated up to 5 hours a day off and on as puppies. They are very normal and no separation anxiety at all and they were housebroken by 5 months of age. I agree, beagles can have separation anxiety issues so it's good to help this pup learn to be "ok" alone at times even when you are home. |
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Candyfloss797 |
#10 | |||
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Posts: 155 07/14/08 5:35 AM |
I totally agree with what you and Heyfuzzy said about it feeling like forever, it does for us too. We got our puppy at 7weeks old, ours is also called Oscar
and also 16 weeks old now. Our housebreaking is what i would say is ok, not particularly good but not terrible either. He's great during the day but not so
good at night, he just cant hold it all the way through the night and has to go. I try not to get stressed or frustrated about potty training or anything else
as Oscar seems very in tune to how i'm feeling and reacts to it by being poorly behaved.
The best advice i was given is that potty training takes time and patience and to just take one day at a time, clean up really well if he has an accident and then just start over from the beginning again. I cant remember who told me this but for us it seems to work and we're happy and relaxed. Good luck with your puppy, i hope you can show us some pix soon   
Oscar, Freddie and Polly |
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JaneMicky |
#11 | |||
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Posts: 78 08/19/08 11:17 PM |
I too work from home and went through the same thing you are going through regarding hating to put him in his crate when I'm in the next room working.
Based on the advice I got on this board, I forced myself to get in the habit. It's worked out great. Micky's doing really well with housetraining
(he's 5 months old and I got him a month ago). Very few accidents. At first, he cried when I put him in his crate and left the room. I just ignored the
crying and he got over that within a few days.
One point I'll add that seems to have made a difference with Micky... When I started crating him during the day when I was home, initially I would wait until he'd start nodding off on the living room floor, and then put him in there. Then we went through a few days where the play-biting started becoming an issue and he was frapping at a more intense level. Folks on this board suggested he may be over-tired in those situations. I've changed my behavior... I know how long he can be up before he starts getting tired and I also know that he does better on a schedule. Now, I put him in his crate on a schedule whether he shows signs of falling off to sleep or not. That immediately took care of the over-excitement and play biting. And one last thing... the guilt evaporated quickly. I know it's absolutely the right thing to be doing for him, so no more guilt here. And, I've got a puppy that is delightful, well-behaved, and happy. |
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 sheltienose |
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Posts: 119 08/19/08 11:39 PM |
I don't work from home, but I bring my puppy to work with me, so it's essentially the same thing. He is 15 weeks old and is in his crate for 5 or 6
hours during the day. When he's out of the crate, we take him outside every hour or so just to be sure. We have only had one single accident. He loves
being in his crate and sometimes when he's been in there so long that I start to feel guilty and wake him up to come out, he just looks at me with one eye
and goes right back to sleep. I did this exact same thing with my first puppy, bringing her to work and keeping her crated there. She only had two or three
accidents total, and loved being in her crate. It works.
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Nancy
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